[ixpmanager] Fwd: IXP Manager Developer Support
Nick Hilliard (INEX)
nick at inex.ie
Thu Jul 11 15:15:31 IST 2019
Right, ok. That paper was based on Nick Feamster's ideas from around
2013 - 2014. So there are two things here: 1) using openflow to program
basic frame forwarding rules based on mac addresses, which has been done
successfully at Toulouse IX and one or two other exchanges and 2) using
openflow to implement internal IXP forwarding decisions and filtering
based on higher level policy rules.
There was a lively discussion about issue #2 at a Euro-IX meeting a
couple of years ago. The general feeling from the IXP community was
that imposing traffic routing policy at layer 2 wouldn't scale in
production because IXP switches are typically resource-constrained.
I.e. you would only be able to install a tiny number of rules before the
switch would run out of hardware capacity to handle them. Obviously this
stage would depend on what switch hardware was in use, but you could
rule out using cost effective top-of-rack equipment and you'd need to
start thinking about running overlays on layer 3 NPU based equipment.
It would be quite expensive, per port.
The second outcome from that meeting came from the IXP participants who
were there. The exact words used by one major hyperscale person were:
"Don't touch our traffic!".
Despite BGP's well-known and well-understood shortcomings, they made it
clear that the job of an IXP operator was to forward frames between the
specified source and destination routers, and nothing more. All the
hyperscales and large content networks have their own clear ideas about
how they want their traffic to be forwarded around the place. They were
crystal clear that they absolutely did not want IXPs interfering their
policy routing decisions, any more than they would want the passengers
in the bus fighting over control of the steering wheel: it tends not to
end up well.
Nick
Haider Ali wrote on 11/07/2019 10:00:
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: *Haider Ali* <haiderrana45 at gmail.com <mailto:haiderrana45 at gmail.com>>
> Date: Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 1:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [ixpmanager] IXP Manager Developer Support
> To: <mahtin at mahtin.com <mailto:mahtin at mahtin.com>>
> Cc: INEX IXP Manager Users Mailing List <ixpmanager at inex.ie
> <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>>, Barry O'Donovan <barry.odonovan at inex.ie
> <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>>
>
>
> Dear Nick,
>
> I couldn't see your message in my inbox yesterday. When I saw the
> mailing list, then saw some other unread messages too. Thanks for your
> reply Nick.
>
>
>
> This paper is focused on your answer:
> https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/~arpitgupta/pdfs/sdx.pdf
> <https://sites.cs.ucsb.edu/%7Earpitgupta/pdfs/sdx.pdf>
>
> Summary of this paper and my requirement:
>
> The three limitations of BGP are following which can be solved by
> Software-defined exchange point:
> • Routing only on destination IP prefix. BGP selects and exports
> routes for destination prefixes. Networks cannot make more fine-grained
> decisions based on the type of application or the sender. Type of
> decisions may be application-specific peering, inbound traffic
> engineering, server load balancing, and traffic redirection through
> middleboxes
> • Influence only over direct neighbors. A network selects among BGP
> routes learned from its direct neighbors, and exports selected routes to
> these neighbors. Networks have little control over end-to-end paths.
> • Indirect expression of policy. Networks rely on indirect, obscure
> mechanisms (e.g., “local preference”, “AS Path Prepending”) to influence
> path selection. Networks cannot directly express preferred inbound and
> outbound paths.
> *I am more interested in the application specific peering and traffic
> redirection through middleboxes. An application can be youtube and
> middlebox can be a scrubber.
> *
> Its a whole paper to understand how SDN can help IXP. But for instance,
> I want to route my traffic of youtube or Netflix (which is very high
> these days) through some fixed route or routers then IXP won't help in
> it as far as I know because it is assumed as a dumb switch. Instead, SDN
> will help. The controller of SDN will tell to switch about the peering
> or forwarding to required middleboxes etc will be compelling applications.
>
>
> *For now, I just wanted to know that how should one start as a developer
> if one intends to understand ixp manager and then convert to Sdn based
> ixp manager.*
>
> The first goal I set is to connect my SDN based IXP (in which there is a
> controller and switch) with IXP manager. I have built an SDN based
> controller and switch with route server etc on OpenFlow. I needed an
> interface on which ISPs come and *choose the policies *(which is
> automatic step). I chose IXP manager for that.
>
> *Kindly guide me.*
> I appreciate your help Martin and Barry.
>
> -Haider
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:34 PM Haider Ali <haiderrana45 at gmail.com
> <mailto:haiderrana45 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the help, Barry.
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:31 PM Barry O'Donovan
> <barry.odonovan at inex.ie <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>> wrote:
>
> Haider,
>
> thanks for the detail below. I would suggest next time introducing
> yourself as you have below from the beginning. The cost/benefit of
> finding the time to help a student project (how it sounded to
> me) is
> vastly different to trying to help IXPs in Pakistan.
>
> I'll await your reply to Martin on what you're hoping to achieve
> and
> then see where we can help.
>
> Note there are a number of development emails around Laravel and
> SDN /
> OpenFlow / FAUCET in the archives of this mailing list. I
> suggest you
> start with them also and then follow up.
>
> - Barry
>
>
> Haider Ali wrote on 10/07/2019 09:25:
> > Sorry to disturb you Barry.
> >
> > It's not a college project. I do have experience in PHP. I do
> have
> > experience in full stack development. I am new to IXP but I
> have a team
> > who have experience in IXP. Learning IXP is not an issue. I
> have some
> > knowledge of OpenFlow too. Laravel Programming isn't that
> difficult. My
> > question was where to start as a developer. If you don't have
> time then
> > kindly give me the source material on this. Like I have seen
> things in
> > the documentation for development.
> >
> > This project is for the IXP at Islamabad, Pakistan. They do
> many things
> > manually. We have the funding to make that IXP the
> software-defined
> > exchange point. I am a research assistant on my part under the
> > government IT advisor and a Stanford doctorate Dr. Zartash
> Afzal Uzmi.
> >
> > Although my knowledge could be low, I am working at the
> country level.
> > We intend to deploy two or more IXPs in the future in Pakistan.
> >
> > With your little help, we at Pakistan can deploy your project
> and can
> > add value to your project of IXP Manager by making it SDN
> based IXP manager.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:04 PM Barry O'Donovan
> <barry.odonovan at inex.ie <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>
> > <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie
> <mailto:barry.odonovan at inex.ie>>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Haider,
> >
> > please do correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you
> have no real
> > experience in IXPs in general or PHP / Laravel
> programming? Is this
> > perhaps a college project or something for you?
> >
> > Unfortunately I just do not have the time / bandwidth /
> spare cycles to
> > assist with such a project. Others on this list may - but
> I do not. I
> > just want to be upfront with you on this so you do not
> mistake my lack
> > of or limited participation in this discussion as being
> rude or
> > purposely unhelpful. It's purely a lack of available time.
> >
> > - Barry
> >
> >
> > Haider Ali wrote on 10/07/2019 08:36:
> > > Dear Sir/Madam,
> > > I want to understand how route server is
> > configured at
> > > the backend of IXP manager. Also, I want to understand the
> > frontend of
> > > each and everything in the IXP manager.
> > > I have just installed the IXP manager. *How should I
> start as a
> > developer? *
> > > I have the vague view that I have to inspect every
> HTML frontend and
> > > then go to its backend file. But don't know where
> these files
> > reside in
> > > the system.
> > >
> > > *I have to first understand the IXP manager that how
> is it linked
> > to the
> > > route server and how is route server configured. Help
> me with
> > this part
> > > please first.*
> > >
> > > Then my *primary purpose or future goal *is to make an
> SDN based
> > > exchange point. If anyone has any little experience in
> it then
> > share,
> > > please.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Haider Ali
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > INEX IXP Manager mailing list
> > > ixpmanager at inex.ie <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>
> <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie <mailto:ixpmanager at inex.ie>>
> > > Unsubscribe or change options here:
> > https://www.inex.ie/mailman/listinfo/ixpmanager
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Barry O'Donovan
> > INEX Operations
> >
> > https://www.inex.ie/support/
> > +353 1 531 3339
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Kind regards,
> Barry O'Donovan
> INEX Operations
>
> https://www.inex.ie/support/
> +353 1 531 3339
>
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